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tv   Washington Journal  CSPAN  October 8, 2015 7:00am-10:01am EDT

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robert kostka -- robert costa about that meeting. and then later, the authors of a biography about jack kemp. ♪ good morning, everyone. house republicans will be voting for speaker today. they will be gathering behind closed doors to elect the next speaker of the house. richard replaced john boehner? -- who should replace john boehner? we want to get your thoughts this morning. (202) 748-8001 for republicans. (202) 748-8000 for democrats. (202) 745-8002 for independents. send us a tweet @cspanwj, or join the conversation on
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facebook.com/c-span. we will get your thoughts here in just a moment, but joining us on the set this morning, robert costa, political reporter for the "washington post." first, 8:00, house republicans will go behind closed doors. what will happen? guest: they will gather in the basement of the capitol, a room called hc5. they are going to hear from the candidates for speaker. today is an internal party vote. it is not the floor vote. this is the decision who is going to succeed speaker boehner. we have webster from florida, a long shot from popular conservatives. you have the presumptive next speaker of the house, kevin mccarthy. then you have the late entry, jason chaffetz. host: they will hear from each of them.
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how long do you expect us to take? will there be staff in the room? what sort of indication why get from lawmakers when they leave hc5 this morning? the 11th hour.t they have been hearing from his candidates all week. phone calls, pleadings and meetings, trying to find coalitions to navigate this byzantine world of house republican politics. i think most of the members going into this room today already have their minds made. it is related hear the closing argument to see, are there any new concessions? the press will not be in the room. will there be anything signaled to someone on the sideline, those on the fence? because that is what is happening now. if you are webster, you are making a play. host: kevin mccarthy -- [indiscernible] -- he moved up from majority whip to majority leader, now he
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wants to be speaker. how many votes does he have? guest: his allies tell me he has 200 plus for sure. he needs 218 to become speaker of the floor. i expect him to be near that 218 today. and the candidacy of tickets and chaffetz and webster, i think webster wants to perform the process -- reform the process. and with chaffetz he is making a statement, about his future. while conservatives have a lot of concern that -- concerns in the house, the rank-and-file republicans, that is the base for mccarthy. that was the base for boehner. they do want to have an entirely frustrated at the top. host: how many are there and
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what are they saying about today's nominee vote when they gather? what will they do? guest: you have to think about this as a chess game. the house freedom caucus is playing against mccarthy. they are playing a chess game against each other politically. the caucus is a group of about 40 or 50 conservatives. they want to change the way the house is run. there frustrations -- their frustrations led boehner to step down. mccarthy's track to be the more mainstream candidate for speaker. they are looking at each other right now time to see what they can get from each other. mccarthy is saying, says he really have to give to the caucus in order to when the gavel. and the house freedom caucus, they want to see what is mccarthy willing to give us paid the calendar is important -- give us. the calendar is important to understand here. said theythe caucus will not endorse mccarthy for
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this vote. they don't think mccarthy has the votes on the floor. they will put their support behind webster. that doesn't mean webster will be a real rival for mccarthy, but it is a protest vote inside the party. the basic point is the conservatives want mccarthy to make them some pledges that they will be on good committees, they will get good financial support, and they are going to be listening to mccarthy's speech before they give him that vote on the floor. host: what happens -- let's jump ahead to october 29 and what happens on the floor. what could happen with this house freedom caucus? guest: there could be some cash. if you have no real assurance from the house freedom caucus between now and then that they are going to back mccarthy, mccarthy may not need -- have the votes he needs. if mccarthy does not have the votes on the floor, this could get thrown to a second ballot. some conservatives would like to see a second ballot.
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what that means is they would have to have another internal party vote like their having today. mccarthy is likely to emerge today because he has the majority of his party's support in an internal party vote. if it comes to the four and a oor and he doesn't have the vote, it will be thrown back to the party to make a new decision. some conservatives hope maybe another candidate would emerge at that time. host: people are going to be listening to what he has to say to -- say. what could make it more difficult for kevin mccarthy? and what could happen over the next three weeks? guest: there is so many minefields for mccarthy. he has to emerge today with political capital. he needs to have some kind of momentum. he also needs to make sure he doesn't have a lot of problems when it comes to government spending. speaker boehner has said he wants to clean the dirty barn. he wants to get a lot of stuff
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done at the end of the month so the next bigger can start with a clean slate. but as boehner most to get things done, that creates a bigger problem with votes on the floor. i think mccarthy's people hope this is a pretty low-key october. host: so we are asking our viewers -- should republicans left the spending caps that were agreed to in 2011 and compromise with democrats? should they raise the debt ceiling? these are all questions that are being debated right now and how to move forward within the republican party. guest: they are national issues, but they are really also republican issues. this has been a major divide. an ideological divide on fiscal issues. four years -- and it is coming to a head rights now -- you have the hawks in the party who are lining with democrats who think more should be spent by the military. then had the conservative side
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saying we put these caps in for a reason, keep the caps in, rain in government spending -- reign in government spending. and that is a real divide. the united states is engaged militarily in different parts of the middle east, there are concerns about syria, isis. so they are saying spent more, get rid of some of these caps. host: let's put this on the table. the so-called obamacare. what are the candidates for speaker promising on this? , ift: there is a general private, acceptance that the affordable care act is here to stay. publicly, the language of repeal remains politically he goes if you are republican, you are still going to push for a appeal. but it is still about the aggressiveness. and that is what the conservatives are looking for. is mccarthy going to target obamacare in an aggressive way?
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what is on the priority list for him? what are you going to do? but mccarthy was leading the health care will let for the gop to try to come out with an alternative. he struggled to get an alternative for the aca for the republicans together over the past two years because of a lot of divide in the party about what it should look like. and they are going to be looking to see what is mccarthy going to do. what are they going to do to roll back the law? (202) 748-8000 for in the near term -- host: in the near term, they gather today for the markup. could this be a vehicle for trying to do something on the affordable care act or other items? guest: it will. i always look at these and they are trying to move forward down the line. the government spending bill, most people don't want to have a government shutdown. we had this whole discussion of whether planned parenthood would be connected. if that is not going to be the
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then what is another cart, what is another place they could put their apple politically? and that is the budget reconciliation. they are saying maybe we could get a concession from mccarthy to cut a push for some defunding of planned parenthood. push for any kind of cut, put it in the budget reconciliation. that, again, becomes a tough vote for the entire conference. but a lot of conservatives see it as a vehicle for something politically to happen. host: what will republicans do? with a push for defunding planned parenthood? -- will they push for defunding planned parenthood? we want all of you to weigh in this morning. in west virginia, a democrat. what do think about this whole debate? caller: good morning, greta. host: good morning. caller: i wanted to ask you a
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question first. host: ok. i put: i e-mailed you and to your attention -- it was about the abortions that is in israel. and you say you have heard that twice. fromsent you a whole thing the times of israel talking about the abortions allowed by the government in israel. so i just want to know if you ever got it or did you look at it? host: you know what, i am not sure. i don't remember receiving it, but i will look. ok? caller: yes. now you know it is going on. as far as the republicans picking somebody for the speaker, it doesn't matter who the republicans put in there. you know, they go out there and they say whatever think they are going to do, but they forget there is two parties in this. and the democrats are still there. although they are in the
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minority, but they have to do it through the senate. and they go out there and break that they are going to do this. if they only do that eliminate the democrats altogether, and that will never happen. get anythingnt to done, they have to work with the democrats. guest: that is a valid point. i think the expectations in divided government, especially in the lower chamber among conservatives, is that they can exert power from the house and pushed the senate and the white house in a certain direction. at the color -- caller has point politically. you often needs democrats to get to the threshold. and so i think that has been a frustration. and if mccarthy become speaker, how he makes the case for the expectations of divided government to perhaps be lowered because that has been something that has been a burden for speaker boehner four years. there has been an unwillingness to accept among many
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conservatives in the house -- and that's your agenda can't be just forwarded to the senate or the white house because it has political will coming out of the house. and that is the way this country was designed. how do deal with that push because so many people came here in 2010 and 2014 in the house gop saying they are going to change the country, but it is hard to do it just from one branch. host: let's look into what kevin mccarthy had to say on fox news recently. [video clip] >> john boehner actually said, let's see -- it is unrealistic, i am a false prophet, we never had a chance to defund obamacare, we are spreading noise, it is a fools errand. he is attacking conservatives for saying use the constitutional authority you have. all of these members say that you have the ability to do that. do you agree with them? it is just a matter of uniting
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together and engaging in that fight, do you agree with that? >> we have the ability to do it, that we have to have a strategy to be able to win it. >> here is the next question. >> i am not in for a fight for the sake of it. you have watched me. i came in here in 2006 when we were in the minority. who traveled the country to recruit people to defeat the democrats? who wrote pledge to america? host: robert costa, pledge for america, young guns, he has been part of this leadership team for a long time, yet he is saying he is different. guest: i think watching that clip it is telling because the way sean hannity asks questions in that manner to leader mccarthy is the same way -- when i am up on capitol hill -- the same way conservative members in the house talk to mccarthy. what are you doing? what exactly is your vision? and it is also perhaps a weakness politically as that he
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is trying to sooth, he is trying to be someone who brings people together. you don't see a lot of pushback aggressively from mccarthy. you see -- [indiscernible] and that has allowed mccarthy to be in a position for the presidency, likely. if that is the tone coming out of the right all the time when he is speaker, it is going to be a rocky experience. host: on twitter, what is the freedom caucus hearing from ted cruz and how much influence does he have? guest: he has significant influence. you look back to 2013, his first year in the senate, he was a house member informally. meeting with them about the house's legislative agenda. this is a freshman senator who exerts an enormous influence.
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it led to that can of impact, cruise's -- cruz's direction. because he is running for president, he is not as involved right now as he would've been in 2013, 2014. if he was here, he really loves house politics, he would be more involved. but his presence has not been found as much as i would have expected. host: paul, appleton, wisconsin, a democrat. caller: i don't think mccarthy will ever be speaker. he is too honest. he told the truth about the ben ghazi committee. i mean, they went over all those e-mails. it is like the are going through every day of her life which he was secretary of state. would anybody be able to do that if they went through every single day of your life when you're on the job?
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and not only that, he is talking about repealing obamacare. tell those millions of people out there who have pre-existing conditions we are going to cut your insurance off because you have a pre-existing condition. and the 11 million people who have obamacare. when are they going to get over that one? host: a couple of issues therefrom paul. -- there from paul. guest: you say kevin mccarthy will never be speaker. the problem for many house republicans is they would maybe like to see a lot of other people stand up to be competitors to mccarthy, but no one has the will to run. ande is a vacuum of power mccarthy has stepped up. paul ryan, probably more popular than anyone else, said no thanks. when it comes to house politics, he would rather stay as a committee chairman. huge support on the right within the house gop, he said no thanks. his other chairman said no.
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even the boehner's of the world said no thanks. mccarthy is there as the defector next speaker because he is willing to do it and he is willing to have those kinds of exchanges with sean hannity, listening members of the house listen to rush limbaugh. and i mean this respectfully of all conservative talk radio, whereby listening to those voices, a creating new kind of dynamic in-house republican politics because those expectations to push for aggression even if it is not possible. host: on twitter, i don't think mccarthy is fast on his feet or sharp enough to go to against a ruthless media. you have "usa today" opinion this benhing in on ghazi debate saying, wrap it up. and focus on clinton's e-mails. is totinue with this plan
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invite unintended consequences. clinton is already running -- [indiscernible] essence, theis, in chairman of that committee. he keeps giving these interviews sank mccarthy was wrong because he is trying to protect the integrity of the community -- committee. is what has caused real unrest within the house gop. but the broader question -- about the broader question of mccarthy's readiness.
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look, when you become speaker of the house, everything instantly becomes national news. a sure foro that is someone like -- chore for someone like mccarthy who has really relished being a behind-the-scenes leader. i think at this point, though, a lot of veteran members are willing to help mccarthy along as he learn the ropes. but with the benghazi committee, you now seeing -- see clinton take advantage of it. you now see an ad about it coming out of the clinton campaign. they sent the tide has turned. they really believe she can come into this hearing confident that she can say, look, i will talk about ben ghazi, but if it turns towards the e-mails, is this political? democrats feel better about the dynamics because of what mccarthy said. host: writing an opposing view
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in "usa today," saying he is not backing off and the committee is not going away. paul in indianapolis, an independent. what are your thoughts on this debate about the future of the republican party? caller: i think it is entirely irrelevant. the president has already said that if the republicans don't find planned parenthood, he is willing to veto the defense appropriation. as long as he has the before votes in the senate, the republicans have a choice of either shutting down the government or doing exactly what the president says. he says if you don't come up
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with what he calls a bipartisan budget, he is going to veto everything they do. so it doesn't make any difference if the republicans have any leader or no later. host: let's talk about the veto factor here. the president still has that power. guest: he does. this is something the republicans are grappling with as they plot out there legislative agenda for the fall. is more, i think, realistic than many house republicans. he knows what is possible in the senate. and so it is about managing the house right now for republicans. and there couldn't be a more tumultuous time intel the house. you have speaker stepping down, you have new leadership coming up that is relatively inexperienced. mccarthy would be one of the most inexperienced how speakers .n the history he has only been in congress less than a decade.
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and so now -- and the president in his second term, we have seen him turn to foreign policy, executive orders, and we have seen them also hold firm to that veto pen. this is someone who remains skeptical of the republican congress and he is willing to put his foot down. host: for those viewers that are following this planned parenthood debate, today at 2:00 p.m. there will be another hearing before the house judiciary committee about funding, government funding for planned parenthood. yesterday, republicans voted to set up a special committee to investigate planned parenthood. will be leading that effort? guest: we are going to see a lot of conservatives. i think the leadership will try to have a coalition of different kinds of members. they definitely want to have women be a part of this. i think the except as now among republican leadership and tell the congress and nationally that planned parenthood is not going away -- it may be a consuming
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issue for the party throughout the campaign. that also brings a new concern outside of congress because the republican party in 2012 was trying to move away from the social issues and not be strident on them. but the emphasis was not there. they are looking at more economic issues and poverty and new issues that came to the floor. back,lanned parenthood social issues and culture wars are here again. host: we are taking your calls of this morning. what you make of the debate that is happening on capitol hill? what do you want the fall agenda for these republicans to be in the house? should they be compromising with democrats? how do they get over that the 60 vote threshold? we are getting a thoughts. keep dialing in. one of the callers -- viewers on twitter bringing up the ability of kevin mccarthy to
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be speaker. whether or not he is quick enough or articulate. i want to show our viewers what rachel maddow put together on her show recently. a speech that kevin mccarthy did in washington shortly after the announcement from speaker banner. [video clip] >> this save zone would create -- safe zone it would create a stream of refugees, unlike the surge in iraq when they had an effective political strategy. we have isolated israel while emboldening places like iran. the absence of leadership over the past six years has had a horrific consequence. all across the globe. in the past few years alone, i have visited poland, estonia, russia, and georgia. host: robert costa, is this how kevin mccarthy speaks? guest: it is. i have covered mccarthy since
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2009. and i covered him when he was not even in the leadership. he was the chief recruiter for the house republicans. and to understand mccarthy -- and looking back at my notebooks from years ago -- mccarthy has never been a speaker who is going to go give a speech at a think tank or anywhere and while you -- wow you. it is not who he was when he came to the house. he is someone who likes the game of politics. he likes to win. he used to carry around the allman neck of american politics. he developed encyclopedic knowledge of districts around the country and about the different kind of quirks of different candidates. he would write them down in his notepad. what their family's names were. their pet's names, their kid's names. the challenge for mccarthy is that he has developed really a
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deep network of support inside the house. he has become friendly with the committee chairman. but to be speaker, you have to be a public face of the party. you have to be a leader of the party. when the party is out of the white house, it becomes even more critical for the speaker to communicate. in terms of managing, the majority of house republicans say he is ready for the job. it is that other part that people are just unsure because it has never been a part of his career. even when he talks about the young guns -- that was mccarthy's idea. that was mccarthy realizing he needed to have ryan at his side at this young guns project because he knew he was strong politically, but when it came to the policy stuff, ryan -- and when it came to more leadership and policy. he has endorsed my cousin, but now he is on the side that he
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doesn't want to be a key player. mccarthy always thought -- would be the next speaker, but history works in funny ways. host: we will hear from lloyd, a republican -- roy, a republican. caller: good morning. actually, i am a democrat. i have been to dial the wrong number. but this has been a bigger gift than i could imagine to the democrats. i don't think this guy is going to be able to lead the republican caucus. , as you just that showed, he is not articulate enough to be speaker. the speaker should be able to speak to the public. host: i am going to take your point. is this a gift to democrats? guest: may be. it is too early to say. the speaker of the house is an important -- but john boehner
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really became a campaign issue in 2012 when he was speaker. for the moment, as republicans are battling, mccarthy is the face. but january and february, when you have governor bush or governor kasich emerge, all the attention in the country when it comes to thinking about the republican party will be on the presidential candidates. that is how it always works. that is not just an opinion. and that means mccarthy cannot fade -- then fade into the background. when the republicans don't really have a crowded field and me presidential race, congress now, can he handle the spotlight? host: want to show you some tweets from capitol hill. kevin mccarthy tweeting this out -- thanking those that are backing him. a big part ofing, a speaker's job involves
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national security. we need someone who can lead. but steve king, republican of iowa -- guest: he is very friendly with them. the caucus is not a locked thing. host: we don't know who exactly is on -- guest: exactly. it is not a public list. host: he tweets this out, we need a speaker who will restore the power of we the people in the u.s. house. before the house elects a new speaker, it is time to repair and model -- remodel it. i'm going to go to hurl in pennsylvania -- earl in pennsylvania. caller: good morning. goes, it mccarthy would be another john boehner except for the crying. that statement he made about hillary clinton and benghazi? that was total ignorance. we don't need mccarthy s because the house.
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as speaker of the house. host: what do they want from him? what concessions do these conservative republicans want? guest: in essence, what they want is power. they want more power. they want influence over legislation. they don't want to be boxed out of leadership meetings. they want to have key committee slots. they want to have support from the national party when it comes to races. and i think the conservatives think they have -- they credit themselves for what happened in 2010 and what happened in 2014. and they say it is time for a street the benefits politically. it is time for us to have a heavy hand in running the house. the talk to house republicans and it is not really about mccarthy. it is what mccarthy represents, which is more of the status quo. and mccarthy's counter to that
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is because he helped recruit many others conservatives and have been very except -- susceptible to them. you see mccarthy is grading boehner as a b-. but the larger question for mccarthy people, when you talk to them, is even if he gives everything the conservatives want, when it comes to something like the debt limit or the spending bill, does he really have the ability then to rein the issue in ah different direction? host: jason chaffetz has jumped into this bigger race. here is what he said on fox news recently about running for the top spot. [video clip] >> i think the american public wants to see a change. they want a fresh start. there is a reason why we see this phenomena across the country. and you don't just give an
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automatic promotion to the existing leadership team. that does a single change. i think the one affects -- they want a fresh face. you have got to speak, you have got to be able to articulate the republican message to the american people and take that fight to the president, but you also have to bridge internally. >> how do you explain? what you mean that you would bridge the internal conflict better than mccarthy? >> well, he has been in existing leadership for years and years, and the divide is getting worse, it is not giving better. what i'm tied to offer is we need internal process reform. how we select the committees, who the committee chairman are paid i don't expect -- chairman are. vote't expect that every we bring to the floor we went. i want to committees to be more empowered. and i think that is what our broad membership wants. host: robert costa, how much support does jason chaffetz ha
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ve? guest: not much. chaffetz is a late entry. he rose as an educator in utah. -- as an agitator and utah. but he also has this friendly personality. kind of a sunny way about him that makes him not as much of a combative persona as some of his allies on the conservative side. but chaffetz's concerns are really interesting to hear because when he talks about the committees having more power, one of the things boehner and mccarthy has done is give a lot of powers to the committees. much comes out of the committees. this is not a leadership that is really moving a lot of legislation, making deals, then pushing them onto the floor. committee chairman have more iny than i think they did
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2009, 2010, 2011. i think chaffetz represents the younger generation. mccarthy does, too, but chaffetz is one of these guys who is in his 40's. they have been battling in the obama era. and they think it is their turn. jon huntsman who ran for president tweeted this out about jason chaffetz, his former chief of staff, saying that leader mccarthy just got chaffetz'ed. something i know a little bit about. and sort of referencing this in her tweet, the democrats have an open door conference to elect nancy pelosi? do democrats have this strife and division? how does nancy pelosi run her caucus differently? guest: it is different because 2006 entering the obama era, the early part of it, nancy pelosi, then speaker pelosi, was running
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her congress and she had wide support within her conference. he has always been ambitious to be speaker, but he was never challenging pelosi openly when she was bigger of the house. and i think the biggest change in house democratic politics is in 2010, so many lost in the republican tea party wave that what was left were the pelosi supporters. the liberal democrats from blue states. and that is pelosi's power center. and when that is all that they were really left out. that meant pelosi kept her power , and she has held onto it ever since. and it also shows some of the chris van hollen, who is considered ambitious, they are looking at other avenues now because they still see pelosi is having her authority. you have seen this story play
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out across house democratic politics. host: let's go to cleveland, ohio. a democrat. caller: hello? hello? host: you are on the air, desmond. caller: yeah, i just wanted to comment on this whole ben ghazi thing. it is just mind-boggling how we can set up. and spend weeks on end about hillary changing her mind about tpp, you know, about -- it is just mind-boggling. we are spending $4.5 million on this committee that is just worthless. and you want to cut funding to public programs. public programs is what they are because the public needs them. we don't need to spend $4.5 million more money on what seven other committees came to the same conclusion on. i mean, it is just much to do about nothing. and this mccarthy, who cares? the mccarthy -- if he gets replaced by another republican,
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this chaffetz guy, it is going to be the same thing. and i agree with the other caller, it is going to be john boehner without the tears. thank you. guest: when it comes to the benghazi committee, you have to think about the origin of it. there was a push among conservatives to have some kind of committee to look into the benghazi affair. what happened in 2012. so that has been ongoing ever since the attack. boehner finally agree to have a select committee. this was celebrated on the right is something that could really perhaps get new information about what went down that evening, that tragic evening. and he did not have a political tint entirely because the house republicans were so insistent from the start that it was not political. i think now that mccarthy has made that comment, regardless of what you think or what he meant, the point is the integrity of the committee politically, the
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way it has been tried to operate has been knocked around. and so that is just a consequence. republicans are now wondering -- they say we are going to get through october 22 and the clinton hearing, but the on that really is this going to be a burden or a help in the race to have this report come out? i think when you look at his comments in recent days, he has really been trying to locate its ambitions to go after people. we will see. host: daniel webster, also running for speaker, has put out this video talking about why he wants to run. [video clip] >> i am daniel webster. you and i have a decision to make, and the american people are watching. the question is, are we going to just change the personalities in the speakership? or are we going to fundamentally transform the way we do business
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here in washington dc? just like when i was in florida, the pyramid of power exists here. if you are in leadership, you are here. if you are not, you are here. we pushed down the pyramid of power to every member can be a part. when i am -- was speaker, this is what we did. we ended all meetings at 6:00 to we took up the most important issues first -- and we took up the most important issues first. we finished on time and the people and members cheered. the people are looking for change. not just a change of later. in fact, they are looking for transformation. as speaker of the house, i would commit to serving you by committing principle over power, i making you successful, by telling you the truth. in luke 22, that settles -- disciples got into an argument. jesus said don't try to be the greatest by becoming powerful,
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become the greatest i serving people. they want transportation. -- transformation. here is the good news. we can give them exactly what they are asking for. host: robert costa, what you make of his efforts? guest: i have covered congressman webster, former state house speaker webster for a while now. the most memorable moment coming -- covering him came earlier this year. people forget about this, but he ran against boehner for speaker in early 2015. it was january, and he came out of nowhere and 112 floats -- votes on the floor. he was making the same case back then. i still have the mental in my file. he called to the house gop a factory that makes widgets and we have to confront power. and he was that same phrase, "pyramid of power." it was jargon, very much the kind of thing you would hear
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from an inspirational speaker in this memo. but he is the one who comes out of a state house back on. and he says i could be more inclusive. the house freedom caucus likes webster. the problem for webster is mccarthy has had struggles with his public presence, but webster has a most no public presence. he has made this video, but in terms of being out there politically, he really doesn't have much support be on 20 members in the house -- beyond 20 members in the house. i see him as a longshot, respectfully. he has run first bigger before. he did get the endorsement for the short term from the house freedom caucus. and i think if chaffetz wasn't in there, webster would be more of a contender. host: we are talking with robert "osta of the "washington post about today's action up on capitol hill. house republicans will be gathering behind closed doors. later today, they will be nominating one of those men to
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become the next bigger. the vote will take place three weeks later at the end of october. there is a lot of internal debate within the republican party up on capitol hill. what is the vision for this party? want to hear from republicans. we want to hear from you. republicans.1 for (202) 748-8000 for democrats. (202) 745-8002 for independents. we will go to richard in the louisville, kentucky. a democrat. caller: good morning. oft november, after 42 years voting straight line -- i voted a straight line republican. the senior senator from kentucky is mitch mcconnell. and from what i understand, as far as mitch mcconnell, 64% of the senate -- united states senate absolutely do not want this man in leadership. but back to the house.
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i had heard that the freedom caucus through all of its weightthrew all of its weight behind -- threw all of its weight behind webster. and webster, according to "conservative review" has a d rating, as far as his voting. but what the man did in florida was absolutely they say just right down conservative republican lines. with the majority of the freedom caucus now behind webster, that denies user chaffetz or mccarthy a majority, and that this could go to several ballots before it is done before the new speaker come out -- comes out. my only thought is, and like i say, i will never vote democrat again. i am a registered democrats now,
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but what this president has done and what the congress has done -- this has got to change. but if i was -- if i was a republican congressman, i would want to see, just like the rest of the country -- you have trump in front. he is now tied up. you have carson in front. he is an outsider. everywhere you look, people are totally fed up with the status quo in congress. so why would you take someone who is a lockstep boehner like mccarthy and elect him when it would be pretty much the same thing? host: i am going to have robert costa jump in. guest: i think the point about the outsiders is happening inside of congress. it is also happening in the presidential primary. today in the "washington post front page of the -- today in the front page of the "washington post," he senses
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that is the current in the republican party. that is something everyone in the gop is considering. i think in terms of webster, his point about webster not being entirely ideologically pure in the minds of conservatives, that is true. concernis not a can -- for republicans. they like webster because he says he would work with them. he would run a conservative house. that is what they want to hear. host: john, jacksonville, florida, a republican. caller: hello. i do not favor mccarthy as big of the house. i think this bigger needs to be someone who can articulate the republican message, be the face of the party, and provide an opposing message to it the president and the democrats are saying. because the republicans pretty much just don't get any media attention unless they stir the pot.
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and lead someone to get the message out there. the speaker, whoever does get elected, needs to be an alternative to the pathological mind we have as president right now. they don't call it the people's house for nothing. and you can see the people are fed up by the number of republicans that have been elected over the last several election cycles. host: robert costa. guest: the role of speaker for house republicans over the last 20, 25 years, gingrich comes up. he is the ultimate communicator. he is sending out tapes to members in the 1980's. he understands the media relishes the opportunity to jump in and make his argument nationally. he writes the contract for america. becomes this force on capitol hill because of his ability to communicate, come up with phrases,t phases, -- and unite people. was the stepping down
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of livingston at the end of gingrich's tenure. he had a lot of troubles at the time. he emerged as someone very much in the lower ranks of leadership, but he became the consensus choice in a time of chaos. even though he had more authority, more clinical capital within the house gop. and tested had to deal -- hastert had to deal with the gop in the 1990's. he rises into the leadership and becomes conference chairman. lose of the leadership race in the late 1990's. he comes back and helps craft no child left behind. so he comes in as someone who has been through the wars, ups and downs, and he has been -- he has been in the house for a longer period when he became speaker, so i see mccarthy as a
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youthful figure in still living how to be a national voice. host: we will go to pennsylvania, john. what are your thoughts check of caller: that was -- thoughts? caller: that was just a rogue -- [indiscernible] -- on what he just announced. and the young guns, how is that working out? as far as the question, chaffetz proved himself the other day in that inquisition with the planned parenthood committee. it was just a joke. this guy could be this bigger of the house. and mccarthy, he is going to be a feature player on "saturday night live." the guy can't even speak. he makes sarah palin sound literate. host: on twitter, does the speaker control content of bills or what bills come to the floor for a vote? guest: working with the majority leader, this bigger does have immense control over the floor.
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they are not just running the committees and running the parties, they control the floor. different people set the schedule, but this bigger is the boss. politics is a collaborative process. , butpeaker is at the top when it comes to something like the grand bargain for boehner, he was trying to do it with negotiations with the white house. at the end of the day, he had to work with his entire 200 plus members to get them on board. so he can get so far with what he wants to, but ultimately he has to convince others to come along. host: talk about the other leadership races and how the nominee for speaker will be voted on today. what does that mean for the rest of the leadership? when will those elections take place? guest: a great question. i have to keep up with my own
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calendar to keep the stray. today is the internal party vote for speaker. a private meeting in the basement of the capitol to see who will be speaker, but the vote doesn't happen until later october. it is only after that vote will we have an election entirely for majority leader and former geordie web. -- four majority whip -- for majority whip. host: and to be clear, those do not take place on the house floor. guest: they do not take place on the house floor. that vote -- when you are speaker of the house, you are not just leader of the republican party. if you are speaker of the entire house. you are leader of a chamber in our government. and that is something the whole houseboats on. the democrats a vote for speaker. they will nominate pelosi. maybe you will have some others a merge as protest votes perhaps. then you have internal vote. host: we will go to edward next
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in cedar rapids, iowa. a republican. caller: hello. yeah, i also don't support mccarthy. think he can pull everybody together. host: who do you support, edward? caller: well, the guy i support decided not to run. i am a firm believer in trey gowdy. him: you would like to see try for that position? caller: definitely. i believe he can pull the party together. guest: i think the caller brings up an episode in the last couple weeks, this boom for trey gowdy to run for majority leader. i think it has been the story of the leadership races, even though it never happened. it was something that maybe when i 45 to 12 hours of -- went on 12 hours.
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12 hours. for 5 to they trust him with the ben ghazi committee. he is a prosecutor who has the ability to not mess up. has the ability to navigate the trenches of national politics, of national press. asgowdy is someone seen capable by his colleagues. he is one who can step up into that role. y, ambitious, a lawyer, running a committee, he himself says he was to focus on the committee. he also releases -- realizes that stepping into that role brings on a lot of obstacles. that push for something new, chaffetz is pushing up -- picking up on the gowdy movement. does the opportunity
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because he, as much as anyone, knows there is this lingering frustration in the house gop about everything. and i think it comes back to president obama remains president. there's is not much house republicans can do about that. 7:55 on the east, that meets many lawmakers are probably in the basement. guest: 8:00 is the meeting. they are walking down. the basement of the capitol. i always think like the basement of a navy ship. there are pipes on the walls. strange yellow lights. and it feels dark. you are in the subterranean area of the capital. -- capitol. you have had -- boehner had emotional moments urging his congress to stick with them. all this conference room, this windowless conference room --
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staffers will not be allowed inside for this. this is an internal party vote. members with members. you have reporters outside trying to text members inside to tell us what is going on. you have some members coming out to use the restroom and they will be pestered with questions. but if you cover politics, if you cover congressional politics, this is the world series. or at least playoff baseball. host: we better let you go so you can get out there. we are going to keep talking about the leadership race for the nomination for speaker that will happen today with all of you. get your thoughts about the vision for the republican party. we want to thank robert costa for being here and letting us in on what is happening behind the scenes and out in public. guest: thank you, greta. stay tuned. , you will have the real vote -- noon, you will have the real vote. it looks like mccarthy is in a solid position, but these days,
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you can never predict. assume nothing. host: we are going to check back in with you later this morning. thank you very much for your time. and we are greatly keep getting your thoughts this morning on this vote for bigger that is happening later today up on capitol hill. what do you think republicans should do? we are hearing from all of you. in with your phone calls. we do want to get some other news in, and that is the front page of the "washington post," hillary clinton is balking at obama's trade pack, noting that she once supported the transpacific partnership, but now worries about unanswered questions. here's what she had to say in an interview that she did yesterday . take a look. [video clip] >> i have said from the very beginning that we had to have a trade agreement that would create good american jobs, raise wages, and advance our national security.
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and i still believe that is the high bar we have to meet. i have been trying to learn as much as i can about the agreement. but i'm worried fifth i would nott currency manipulation being part of the agreement. we have lost american jobs to the mean ablation that countries have -- to the mean ablation that countries -- to the manipulation that countries have been involved in. i think that there are still a lot of unanswered questions, but for me, it really comes down to those three points that i made. and the fact that we have learned a lot about trade agreements in the past years. sometimes they look great on paper. i know when president obama came into office, he inherited a trade agreement with south korea. i, along with other members of the cabinet, pushed hard to get a better agreement. we think we made improvements.
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now looking back on it, it doesn't have the results without it would have in terms of access to the markets. >> so are you saying this is not something you could support? >> what i know about it as of today, i am not in favor of what i have learned about it. and there is one other element i want to make -- trade agreement don't happen in a vacuum -- agreements don't happen in a vacuum. in order for us to have a competitive economy, there are things we need to do here at home. republicans have blocked everything president obama tried to do on that front. so for the larger issues, and then what i know -- again, i , i don'te the details believe it is going to meet the high bar i have said. -- set. host: hillary clinton on pbs to now,ur," saying that from what she knows about the
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transpacific trade partnership deal, she is not in support of it despite pushing for it which you were secretary of state. house republicans will begat thing here, and they will kickoff -- will be gathering here, and they will kick off this session this morning. lawmakers heading into hc5. there are no windows in that room. they will be gathering to hear from nominees for speaker. and they will be making their case to the rank-and-file republicans. after that, later today, they will be gathering again behind closed doors to take an internal vote, make their nomination for speaker. and then, that speaker vote will take place on the floor on october 29. keep calling in this morning with your thoughts on this and the future of the republican party. will it be kevin mccarthy as speaker of the house?
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or will it be one of these alternatives? turning on. -- us on the phone -- joining us on the phone is lisa mascaro. lisa mascaro, who is kevin mccarthy? give us an idea of who he is and what can of leader he has been. guest: high, greta, good morning. thanks for having me. kevin mccarthy is the current number two republican in the house. he is the majority leader. he is a sort of new generation of republicans. old. he is much younger than retiring speaker house boehner by about 15 years. asrecruited as the check -- the campaign chairman if you do go many of the parties newer lawmakers that we talk so much about, the republicans that have for a new strong
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agenda and really tried to challenge president obama. a lot of members of the tea party caucus. tried to position himself of the guys. he is a very affable person. he goes bike riding with members and brings them out for dinner together. they go to his office on the first floor of the capital. he has it covered with portraits of members in action, all these guys with their shirtsleeves rolled up. however, that sort of goodwill that you would expect to be there is not necessarily their for kevin mccarthy. the problem is, he is the number two guy to john boehner and a core group of house republicans have been trying to get john boehner out for a long time, several years. succeededy that they
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by speaker banner announcing that he will in fact resign at the end of the month because he did not want to have to put congress through this vote against him. ,epublican members of the house especially this very core member of -- core of conservatives, lawmakers that kevin mccarthy brought to washington, they just can't vote for the number two guy. that is what led to this big upper and this challenge that is going to play out now. host: and as you are talking we are watching some lawmakers make their way into that meeting where they will be hearing from kevin mccarthy and others. we saw jet handling walk-in.
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patrick mchenry right there who is making a bid for majority whip, also making his way into that closed-door meeting. i congressional standards, talk about kevin mccarthy's rise to potential becoming the next speaker. guest: his rise already has been swift. it is very much reminiscent of what happened when he entered the california state legislature. he had a swift rise as the minority party leader back then. he has sort of replicated that here in washington. however, getting over the hurdle is going to be really difficult. as you said, what they are doing today is -- i call it sort of a preliminary round. basically the house republican conference, the house republican majority, are going to be nominating their choice for speaker.
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overthis dissatisfaction kevin mccarthy, other candidates emerged. you see this little-known newcomer, congressman daniel webster from florida. he has won the support of the house freedom caucus which is that core group of conservatives. and that of the last minute late last week and over the weekend we saw this long shot bid by another popular younger congressman. actually a friend of kevin mccarthy, whose name is jason -- .ason shape its -- tickets he came in just a couple years after kevin mccarthy, elected in 2008. a tough year for republicans. elected.mself another republican from utah, and beat him in the primary. he is now chairman of the house oversight and government reform
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committee. he has been very strong on benghazi and some of these other issues that republicans have taken on. he is trying to sort of make a play for the dissatisfied voter and he readily acknowledges that he does not have the votes to win today in his nomination vote that -- but he believes that between now and october 29, with all the turn, and that sort of dissatisfaction, that he could rise and become the candidate on the floor. remains a long shot, but it has definitely given kevin mccarthy even more of a challenge than he would have had worried just mccarthy versus the congressman from florida, mr. webster. what could happen over the next three weeks i could make
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that dissatisfaction with kevin mccarthy greater? guest: two things. pressure and foreign cleaning -- barn cleaning. speaker boehner said on his way out he might try to clean up the barn for the next guy. there are a lot of year and problems facing congress. they need to raise the debt ceiling, continue a highway running program. items that are not easy about -- easy votes. if speaker boehner pursues them those deals are deals that lawmakers do not like. mccarthy will get saddled with that as part of our leadership team. on the other side, pressure. said thatvatives have they -- just because they endorsed kevin mccarty last night does not mean that he gets their vote on the 29th.
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he has to make some promises to those who wants -- who whose votes he wants to show that he will make reforms and changes. that is great for the conservatives. they want changes. it is scaring some of the more moderate members of the house republican congress who worry that their majority of getting turned over to the hardliners. host: all right. lisa mascaro, we appreciate your time. guest: thank you for having me. host: we will get to phone calls now. barry and florida, a republican. go ahead with your thoughts. caller: i am retired military. this is really very simple. justwe are again, i am watching it, everything is political. i am getting ready to change to an independent and i will tell you why. i wake up every morning and i
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really get sick to my stomach because nobody cares about what we think. it is all political. here we are and it is all political. who has this and who has that? who can do this and who can do that? this, i go out in the community and i talk with other people. we are not heard. nobody wants to hear what we have to say. it is making me want to leave this country and go somewhere else. retired military. i am as proud of this country as anyone, but this is embarrassing. nobody cares about what the american people want. it is what the politicians want. good example. jason chaffetz. nobody likes him because he is political fluff. i was all these committees every day. caress a guy who really and this is pathetic. you have a guy who knocks the and you want to
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vote summary like that in? that is a joke. california, a democrat, what do you think jack -- what do you think? caller: kevin mccarthy is actually my representative. i am a registered democrat. kevin is a good guide. if he was a democrat i could probably go for him. is threehat we have bad choices, and i think kevin mccarthy would be the best of three bad choices. if changes -- see chaffitz gets in there the entire government may shut down until the presidential election, as i don't see any of this as legislative, --
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which is the art of compromise. they are just hostage takers. how are they going to raise the debt ceiling, how are they going to give the government open? i don't see that unless the republicans are voted out of office. and you think kevin mccarthy is the best chance of some kind of compromise with democrats? yes.r: i know him. he is a decent fellow. it is too bad he is a republican, but he is a decent fellow. host: that is the kind of endorsement from a democrat that makes the republican rank and file recoil at the thought of having kevin mccarthy as speaker. caller: probably. but i think he is a decent fellow, and i am just afraid that whatever happens the government is not going to stay open. chicago, ad in republican, you are next. caller: good morning. i like with that last people said.
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everything i read about him is good. he has got rick perry endorsing him, dick cheney. he is a good conservative. we have got to give him a chance. everybody is already bashing him, give him a chance. i don't think republicans talk about the accomplishments that this congressman has. you have obama in the white house and these republicans have cut spending. they have banned earmarks. they worked on entitlements. we have to take advantage of this majority and i am hearing guy saying they are not going to if your a nominee arius report republicans, we are on the same team. both from the floor and let's get things done for the country. host: should the republican party lift the debt ceiling and lift the spending caps that were
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put in place in 2011? ceilingi think the debt , that is dangerous stuff if you don't lift that. is a gravet that threat to the economy if you don't lift it. someully we can get entitlement reform. i am from chicago. i think president obama is not going to do anything. but i am not going to risk the national economy or the world economy. i really do feel the jason guy, we or this other have to be serious about it and i think kevin mccarthy is serious. he is a good leader. we have to do the right thing for the country. let me move on to larry in arkansas, an independent. good morning. i tried to gety, in on the last segment, but i
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trywondering why we didn't to deal with all the embassies that were destroyed during bush's term. that was my main question. speaker i really don't think it will matter who gets in there. i want mccarthy if anybody. host: the previous color mentioned that dick cheney has endorsed kevin mccarthy. he put out a statement last night with politico. john in greenville, maryland, an independent. you're on. caller: thank you for taking my call. i would just like to comment on the first caller after your guest, i totally agree about the state of politics. i encourage him and everybody else to check out bernie sanders. he is looking at the working-class and brings on --
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integrity and authenticity. i believe he and martin o'malley ideally to gore actually opposed to the tpp. it seems like the further libertarian and right-wing people are -- host: i don't know if you saw this, but hillary clinton an interviewerng that she is now against this trade deal. she has said she would oppose it from what she knows. of course all the details are not public. 30 days for those details to come out and then a. -- 30 days for those details to come out and then a period of review. republicans are in favor of moving forward with that pacific partnership. we will go to georgia, a democrat. good morning.
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caller: i am 65 years old. i like that guy you had on the other day who was running for majority whip. he did not get come up with -- caught up with it. i think he would be a good speaker. here is a man who is willing to work with people who is making the right decision. situation -- whole no abortion, whatever. timespublicans tried six to overthrow obama. you don't want abortion? put it on the floor. put it on the floor. pass a law. you are a party of law. put it on the floor. bring it to the president, then you can blame the democrats.
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but if you don't put anything on the floor you are just playing a game with people. i am focused on honesty and faith. you mentioned this whole debate over abortion. this is from the washington post this morning. a select committee will look at abortion. committeeed a central to examine a wide range of ,ractices related to abortion the latest result of an activist campaign targeting planned parenthood. the members will continue the work of three house panels that have investigated planned parenthood since july when antiabortion activist first uncovered videos depicting some abortion -- planned parenthood executives discussing selling fetal body parts. some -- jason chaffetz
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complained that the committee has allowed the committee to be stonewalled. cecile richards appeared in answer questions in her group handed over thousands of documents. bobby in georgia, a republican. go ahead with your thoughts. caller: i don't like mccarthy. he puts his foot in his mouth every time you talks. he is to a mature. chaffetz, whos -- is more mature, he was one of the first ones to go over to benghazi. and lindsey graham. they were very powerful about seeing that the american people knew what was going on. i am sure we will find the when he gets through
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with his investigation. thank you. host: ok. joining us on the phone now is thomas burr to tell us more about jason chaffetz. for jasone whip count chaffetz? guest: right now i guess the only public whip count we have is about three people. that would be jason chaffetz and his utah colleagues. but there is probably more than that. he has actually told people not to publicly say they are supporting him. he does not want people to get caught in the crosshairs of kevin mccarthy or anyone else. shot.really a long green caucus house said it was going to endorse daniel webster. he really could come in and third. host: what prompted him to jump
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in and what is his strategy for winning? guest: there are a couple different strategies. one i think maybe he is betting that people will feel that mccarthy's current leadership and we need a fresh face and a fresh start. but the other long-term strategy is mr. mccarthy gets the nomination today. mccarthy can't get a majority of those in the house. they go to a second ballot, he still can't get it. and maybe there hope is that at some point he will say, ok. mccarthy can't get enough. what about this jason chaffetz guy? what is his political background and what are his strengths and weaknesses? guest: he has an interesting background. he started out as a jewish
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democrat and now he is more of a republican. his father is john chambers -- etz and his mother later married dukakis. then he had kind of an awakening. he converted to mormonism at byu. he converted to republicanism after meeting ronald reagan. he worked in communications for a while and then became a campaign monitor -- manager. he really did hone his skills with the media. he is known as one of the most media savvy members of congress. sures joke -- i am pretty every reporter has his cell phone number. he is witty, he is quick on his feet. he can jump on a tv show and talk about a bunch of different topics.
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when it comes to his weaknesses he is relatively new. he is fourth term. he is not as well nationally known as some other people. does not have a huge group and the house that is going to back him. and even outside of , tweeting out that he is a self promoter and power-hungry. guest: there was a tweet. we have long known that they are not best pals even though has been pretty much plucked him hunt -- huntsman pretty much plucked him from a security -- of security. but i asked him if he wanted to elaborate on this tweet and he declined. so we will just let that summer. host: ok. we will be learning more this morning.
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they are obviously making their way and to the capital. when they come out after the listening sessions what are you going to be doing? who are you going to be talking to? guest: i have actually heading over to the house right now. i'm just trying to pull members and see where they are heading on this one. i think it gets down to the question of a long-term strategy. mccarthy is probably going to mid -- when today. what happens on the floor? will the freedom caucus actually break ranks? is there another angle here? angling to beetz majority leader or majority whip? i'm not sure. host: thank you for your time. back to more of your phone calls. republicans vote for a new speaker today. they will be nominating who they want to leave the party and then a floor vote will take place in three weeks on october 29. what will happen over the next three weeks? will a two-year budget deal
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brokered by the current speaker? will they raise the debt ceiling? what do you want from the republican party? i want to share some other headlines. leader harryty sue -- harry reid plans to the maker of the exercise band that injured his eyes. that coming from capitol hill this morning. lots of news on the situation in syria and russia, what they are doing. here is one headline, waves of young syrian men ring hope to europe -- bring hope to europe. 69% of migrants reaching europe are men. it says the massive exodus of so many young men poses great challenges to countries like syria. it provides that -- deprive them of the democratic -- demographic
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necessary to demographic growth. officials said russian intervention and a resulting plan by the last four allies has rejuvenated syrian government forces and put to rest any doubt about russia's commitment to the syrian president. that is in the papers this morning. charles, nashville, tennessee, a democrat. you are next. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. i have a quick statement. first of all, it really does not who becomes the speaker of the republicans because for as long as we have been a wouldy the politicians
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talk different things back and basically to help the american people. that is what they were elected for, to represent the people. theythey outlawed earmarks no longer have anything to gain, so they don't talk to each other. they don't care what happens to the american people. there is nothing in it for them. and a color from bakersfield, california. you are in the district of kevin, what are your thoughts? caller: i am for kevin because i want to win. he has traveled, recruited, and fund raised to win more seats in the house and the senate and soon we are going to take back the presidency. he brought netanyahu to
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the congress, monumental speeches. that is why he is the best choice. we will go to joe in mississippi, a democrat. caller: how are you doing this morning? host: good morning. caller: i would just like to say that we need a congress up there. we need to work together. done with everyone, they don't have to work when they go to work. we need a congress that will work when they go up there. togethereople to work and we need a congress that can work to get bills passed. everybody is not going to be everything 100%. but we need a congress that is going to work with america. thank you. justin in knoxville, tennessee, republican. hi there. caller: good morning.
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thank you for taking my call. there is a lot of talk about the republican congress that is making the vote for the speakership. that same caucus gets a lot of the blame for holding up things in congress and slowing down what they call progress. but i wanted to remind the american people, a lot of folks don't realize this. just because they have and are -- just because they have an r name, manyheir people think there -- that america is greater with less interference in their lives. on theot just the votes hill making this happen. it is the folks back in their districts that should have stood up and said we have had enough of the government that cares about itself over its people. i hope that the rest of america is starting to see this, especially those folks that have given up, have thrown up their
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hands and decided that it is just not worth getting out to vote. i certainly sympathize with that opinion, but at local levels in our district at home, if we are tired of the government wasting our money and dictating how we conduct our lives in private, then we can make a change. but we have to do it at a local level like this group of republicans. i am not saying that because i am some huge water carrier for the republican party. i am anything but that. but the point of the call is we can make a difference if we start educating ourselves and start to recognize that when half of our government, or half of the elected people in our government start to dictate the lives of the other half -- whether that half is republican or democrat -- somebody is going to be upset by that. host: you mentioned progress. here is what democrat donald --
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donna edwards is treating out. she says, the facts. the gop spends time lobbying each other for office instead of any negotiating as critical deadlines pile up. on hillary clinton's e-mail server, "washington times" front a judge ruledthat hillary clinton's e-mail server is private. that she notuested delete any government business e-mails. and also this morning on the front page is this, president obama personally calling doctors without orders and offering an apology to them for that deadly airstrike at a hospital in afghanistan. the doctors group says the airstrike may be a war crime. susan for massachusetts, a democrat. what do you think about what is happening up on capitol hill? caller: well i hope they nominate someone who is a
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moderate, more moderate than most of their republicans seem to be. rightucus is the extreme which does not seem to appreciate what government does. i think some of the callers are right, we should vote. you should not put anyone in office who cannot government because is compromise. especially when you have two parties. compromise is the most important thing. -- send our representatives to the government, they are supposed to vote for the common good. that does not mean just for their district. or just so they make sure they get back and office.
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for are there to vote things that are good for the common good. everybody. that means investment in education, in health care, in work. they were arguing over this pipeline, which would have left 24 people working instead of passing a bill to fix our roads, .ur bridges, and our dams our airport and our , which would help employ thousands of workers instead of just four. -- instead of just 24. i hope people start voting for people who will do something. host: i will leave it there for now. we will be talking with veteran political reporters mort whoracke and fred barnes have just released a new
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biography about the late jack kemp and then later we will continue this conversation about today's republican congress vote for the speaker of the house. we will be right back. >> this monday on c-span's new series, landmark cases.
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in 1830 dread scott was enslaved to a u.s. army sergeant. during his enlistment in the army he was assigned to duties in several free states, during which dread scott married harriet robinson. follow the case of scott versus ,tanford in c-span's new series landmark cases. historic supreme court decisions. we will explore this historic supreme court ruling by revealing the life and times of the people who were the plaintiffs, lawyers, and justices in these cases. landmark cases, live in monday at 3:00 p.m. eastern. and we'll be taking your calls, e-mails, facebook comment, and tweets. on c-span, c-span3, and c-span radio. and for background on each case
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what you want order your copy of the companion book. it is available for a dollars $.95 shipping. >> our first step will be to balance the budget with a strategy that combines economy and government and is designed to liberate the productive genius of the american people. of course the naysayers in the clinton white house say it can't be done. they've got to say that. they don't know bob dole and they don't know jack kemp. [applause] host: that was jack kemp from the gop convention, august of 1996. joining us this morning co-authors of a new book called -- about jack kemp. ,ort kondracke and fred barnes
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thank you for being here. why write this book about jack kemp? why now? i was retained by the jack kemp family foundation to do an oral history over a couple of years. interviewed 100 football players and congressmen and staff members and family. i realized quite early on that nobody has ever written an autobiography of him. i went to the library of congress for three years where all his papers are. he deserves an autobiography. he wrote the book. he was the most important politician of the 20th century who was never elected resident, certainly the most influential republican. this is not original to us. i have heard it again and again. i looked at his record and it was true.
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previously, open space. i got fred and i wrote the book. host: why did you want to get involved? guest: well we go back a long way. we met each other covering the herald if you remember back that far. went to fox together. we have in very close friends for a very long time. and i knew jack kemp very well. i wrote a lot of stories about him at first when i was at the " the baltimore sun" and then when i was at "the new republic." i always admired him. i basically agreed with him. his tax cuts really had a dramatic effect on the country. so when mort invited me i thought about it for maybe 25 seconds and decided to join him. then we had a great time doing it. i would say when i did
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this research i read a lot of journalism about jack kemp. even after we were already working i'd rediscovered that the best stories of what he was doing and why he was doing it, what people said about him, were friends. i kept sending it to him. he had completely forgotten me. i accept the compliment. host: what is it about jack kemp's politics that you think people should know about, especially today and especially on this day as republicans gathered behind closed doors to talk about who should be the next leader. kemp and theack great dynamic figure he was in favor of a big idea. the big idea was supply side acrosscs and tax cuts
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the board, 30% in this case that he pushed in congress. his tax cuts never passed and then he delivered into ronald reagan and reagan was always for tax cuts so he was convinced that supply-side tax cuts would work. that is what made cap historic. then there is another cap. the model for historic republicans. he never attacked opponents and always had good ideas and thought that ideas were important. he had better ideas than the other guys. i completely endorse everything that he and said. you have to remember what the 1970's were like. high unemployment. high inflation. state of mind in the population. in 1979 only 15% of american people thought we were going in
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the right direction. in iran, thees soviet union had invaded afghanistan. the president did not know what to do. nixon did not know what to do about high inflation. ford did not know. jimmy carter certainly did not know. carter blamed it on the american people. it was a miserable time. jack kemp came up with this formula. everybody thought that the classic keynesian economic answer was to spend lots more money. we were already spending lots more money. it involved -- he admittedly kennedy.from john f. john f. kennedy -- democrats like to forget -- proposed lowering the top tax rate from 90% to 70%.
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that was enacted after his kempsination and temp -- went as to his economic aid and said why don't we just copied the economic -- the kennedy tax cuts? that the tax went down to 50% and now down to 28%. we had 25 years of prosperity. part of our economic success, the soviets were looking at it and could not match it. he did run up deficits for sure, but the soviet union tottered at collapsed. at the end of it 69% of the american people thought the country was going in the right over the worldll people thought the democratic capitalism was the way to go. here, but the actor
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he was using an instrument handed to him by jack cap. bet: so would jack kemp considered as that was meant to the? -- would he be considered establishment today? would he be in line with the conservative republicans up their? he was an economic conservative, obviously very free-market oriented. he was very conservative on foreign-policy issues, which he did not think reagan was tough enough with the soviets. he wasn on social issues a great believer in civil rights . he said he regretted that he was not old enough at the time to be a part of the civil rights movement. he was very pro-immigration. i don'tre things --
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know if they were establishment, but they make you different. he is a different kind of republican and one that more and mort and i agree is one republican ought to emulate now. certainly when he was pushing supply-side taxes he was not establishment. he was going around the establishment. he succeeded. host: he got in some hot water for doing so. guest: he was in hot water a lot. the senior republicans who would be the establishment now, the chairman of the committee's, leadership, they did not like the fact that he was not a member of the house ways and means committee and here he was pushing tax reform. bob dole did not like it because he did not agree with it. but he thought, who is this
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upstart trying to rewrite the tax code? he was an outsider although he was a member of congress. oner he became a leader foreign-policy and also on -- when reagan tried to raise taxes was always against it and got incredible heat from the white house staff. whenon he ran -- on our -- piece in 1996 he wrote a saying -- and he had been hud secretary and been in can -- in favor of writing -- of a conservative war on poverty. but he talked about race a lot. he talked about immigration a lot. at thed be enraged
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anti-immigration forces in the republican party. host: i want both of you to comment on what is happening behind us this morning. house freedomhe caucus, 30, 40 members strong saying they are going to dominate daniel webster, an outsider, to the republican leadership. they want to see an alternative to what exists in kevin mccarthy. they are saying they will hold out until they feed some change. what do you make of them demanding sessions? guest: i have a stake in this fight. my son happens to work for kevin mccarthy so i want to say that up front. this group, particularly the hard-core conservative group of 35 or 40 members, is really feeling strong after pushing john boehner out. that was not the only reason he resigned but that was a reason,
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his inability to pull together the entire republican conference. at the end of the day my guess is -- i have said what my biases -- i think kevin mccarthy will probably win but it may not be easy. the important thing is what you raised. there have to be concessions diffusech would authority over committee assignments and things like that. i am not exactly sure what their exact demands are. host: they want more power. the process of always difficult right. people use the power they have to try to manipulate things to their satisfaction. this is not necessarily new and
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is being done all out in the open right now. that is the way things are done these days. it looks messy. it is messy. is what is the policy consequence of what they are for? i don't see how the house republicans can go further right and expects the image of their party to be one that the majority of americans will accept. -- guest: they are certainly anti-immigration. they have told the hispanic community of the united states, we hate you. that is the message that is coming through. hispanics have no use for the republican brand. kids, young people, young workers are being turned off by what they are for. if they go even further right than that i think they could spoil the brand. guest: that leaves out one
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thing. there are really two republican parties. there is the republican party at the state level, there is a -- the congressional party, and there is the presidential party. look at donald trump, you see one thing. look at jeb bush and marco rubio, look at john kasich. look at chris christie and a number of these candidates who are pro-immigration, pro-tax cuts. i would not say they exactly are copies of jack cap, but they certainly approach that as a limit. they are quite different from the part of the republican party -- host: who emulates jack cap in the house and who represents him on the presidential trail? guest: i think jeb bush the most. definitely john kasich is some extent. marco rubio to some extent. cruzs maybe less so -- maybe less so.
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host: in the senate? guest: certainly there is paul ryan. he is not running for president, not running for speaker. at the end of the day he may wind up doing that. think he wanted. he wants to be chairman of the house ways and means committee. kemp-likea number of people and you see some of the state level as well. you have to distinguish between the congressional party and the residential party. guest: there are people in the committed toe getting stuff done. example,exander, for is working on a bipartisan basis. they have already passed a no child left behind rewrite, which
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will be helpful. they are going to try to do a higher education forum and they are going to move on to consider ability. upton's 21st century cures goal which would up the amount of money spent on medical research. that is a committee that is functioning well. corker is not an exciting guy but he is chairman but he is the chairman of the senate foreign relations committee. constructive person. host: our authors joining us this morning with a book on jack and fredt kondracke barnes. david joining us, go ahead. caller: good morning gentlemen. host: hold on. you have to talk more into the
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phone. caller: i guess i am not seeing they have the more progressive view of conservatism. [indiscernible] to jump in.oing i think we have gotten your point. guest: i think he says that ronald reagan and cap -- kemp were always at odds with each other. host: social issues it sounds like. guest: no. was pro-life, and so was reagan, but they did not make a big deal out of it. , reagan signed the 1986 immigration bill. where they differ was on economic policy.
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and also foreign policy. kemp was always a supporter of reagan. there were some people who kemp to run- against reagan. there was even a crazy idea that he would run and then give all his delegates to reagan, that -- he did not go for that. hiswhen reagan adopted policies they were obviously on the same team. stockman,blamed david all those people for trying to undercut the tax policy that reagan had put forward in 1981. he thought that reagan was being by the secretary of state, which i think is completely wrong. reagan's diaries show that what
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scholz was doing was exactly what reagan wanted. was against him on that and i think he was wrong. but fundamentally he always said good things about reagan. guest: i think the caller does have a point. that is the notion that reagan mp were -- camp -- ke just pals all the time was really not true. really pushed him to go further. he pushed against these tax increases. veered away from the original tax cut of 1981, but at one point if you are ever this, emp evenen demanded -- k demanded that reagan fired george scholz. reagan had no intention of doing that. he was close to george scholz who really did represent his view. but there were times when reagan
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was at that jack kemp past because he was pushing so hard for what he believed in. staff the white house that dumped to the press day after day all these negative how he was putting his ambition ahead of the interest of the president. who does he think he has? does he think he is the leader of the country? it was very messy. sue in maryland, and independent. hi. caller: how are you? host: go ahead. and i: i am in maryland remember jack kemp. but i will tell you, he would not play today because he was then and he is now one of the biggest whiners out there. immigration about would you please clarify that the folks who are against immigration, it is it illegal
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immigration. i really get very sick and tired of hearing outdated political pundits who are out of touch. arethe young people i know very much against illegal immigration. they are very much against us losing our sovereignty. when you talk about ronald reagan signing the immigration bill, he also said it was the biggest mistake of his career, that he wished he had never signed it. host: ok. guest: reagan did not say that. you know what he said the biggest mistake of his career was a bill when he was governor of california that liberalized the abortion law in california. his aides insisted it would not affect very many people but of course there were a lot of abortions. numberth is there are a of republican presidential candidates who not only are against illegal immigration, as most people are, but want to reduce the amount of illegal immigration. , think carly fiorina is there
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scott walker, others. started out as republicans were just against illegal immigration but many of them have now said let's curb the amount of immigrants who come into this country legally. guest: everybody is against illegal immigration. everybody wants to control the border. is, ok, you got 12 million people in the united states, most of them are working. they are the people who pick the crops, 10 to the golf courses, work in the camry factories. ify are taking jobs that -- ordinary citizens want to take those jobs, they could do it. they are not doing it. some of you have got to do it. what you going to do with them? not going to support 12 million people.
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can you imagine what the scene would be like ripping families of her? people weeping at the borders? obama has done a lot of it himself. if a republican were doing it there would be riots, especially in the media. host: chuck schumer saying to ,utgoing speaker john boehner what if he were to do it in the next two weeks? guest: there would be a convulsion and i don't think it would pass. host: democrats would not supported? guest: they -- there are just too many pitfalls. guest: what i would like to see is put a small bill on the floor, a bill that had the dream act in it. legalize his kids who grew up in the united states. do something about agricultural
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workers on a temporary basis. , the numberk reform of high skill these us -- these is -- visas. you don't have to pass comprehensive immigration reform because it won't pass, but you do something. guest: i agree with him on that, but look, some big immigration bill at the last minute, you almost look -- wind up with an immigration bill that most of the country can support? you can't do it by rushing something through at the end of october. host: the book, "jack kemp: the bleeding-heart conservative who ," and theerica authors here to talk about the debate then and debate now. andn in california, independent. you are next. caller: good morning.
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you talk about legal and illegal immigration. we have all these people you say we can't deport. we have to deport them. look at the electoral college. our votes don't even count anymore because of all the illegal aliens here. they are taking jobs american citizens want. they are taking our college curriculums, kicking people out of our colleges. it is a mess. our country is going downhill and we will never be able to get anything back. we have to deport them or we have new country anymore. guest: sir, with all due respect, illegal immigrants do not vote so that has nothing to do with the electoral college. secondly, those jobs, i want to see ordinary americans standing in the line for construction
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jobs where you get picked up for day labor. that when i go by such places. our country is in very bad shape. very bad shape. but it is not the illegal immigrants who have made it into very bad shape. there are people up on the hill who can agree on nothing. we have terrible infrastructure. we have terrible education. teachers unions are ruining the country. it is tough. it is the-- nativeborn americans who are missing the countries up. host: we go to bill in arlington heights, illinois. caller: good morning. how are you? a couple questions. first, i miss you on the mclaughlin group. those were the days. two comments. off, would you address the role of the federal reserve and
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the late 70's having grown up in the 60's and 70's i know the rates were super high at that time. could you comment on the role of the fed and how maybe that over time helps the economy by lowering interest rates? finally and the days of career politicians? guest: we are going to disagree on term limits. but we agree on the fed. part cuts, but you also have -- you tighten on the money supply. it was jimmy carter faced with this high inflation and high unemployment who brought in paul. and paul was brought in for one reason, and that is to punch down inflation. and he started off for a strongly undercut it. then reagan came in and reagan supported him as well. we had a recession, even higher unemployment than the recession
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in 2009. and reagan backed it. didn't jump all over paul as the fed chairman. and inflation was crushed. and he was a very important part of what went on, along with the growth, but really cracking down on the money supply. paul: kemp thought that was pressing too hard on the brakes. he was constantly fighting. in a matter fact, he wanted paul not to be reappointed, which, of course, reagan did. and he thought that paul was inflation and growth obsessed. that every time he was wrong -- every 10 the growth rate would begin to pick up -- kemp was afraid that paul would crush down -- or raise the interest rates again and spoil the recovery. whathe also thought --
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dragon past was not pure kemp law. -- what reagan passed was not -- pure kemp law. somehow, the accelerator never got to down far enough, which is what caused the huge 1983 recession. unemployment rose to almost 11% in one month. guest: i am against term limits because we have term limits. every two years, if you don't like the guy you've got, or woman you've got, you can throw them out. and all you are going to get as a result of term limits is novice is on capitol hill, career lobbyists, career staff aides, career bureaucrats. they are going to run them around by they noses. so i would rather have experienced people, even if they are incompetent.
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guest: even if they can't agree, having a so bunch -- host: kevin mccarthy has some of the least experience in history of being speaker. then you have this, tweeting it, a speaker of the house with a major speaking problem? the world is a joke. guest: he made a gaffe, obviously, when he was being interviewed by sean hannity on fox a couple of weeks ago what he said about the ben ghazi committee, which i think was actually untrue. has beenhe committee very straight, very honest. and it has uncovered things about hillary clinton and her whole e-mail system, which we would attempt known otherwise. rt, term limitsmo have been tested at the state level in many, many states. what you say has not happened there. state legislatures have continued to function
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effectively, even though many of the people in the house or the senate in the states have to leave. and it turns out, of course, that there are many, many offices for these perennial office seekers that they can go there, many other things they can run for. so term limits, get elected the house, ok, that runs out. then you are in the state senate and you can run for governor and so on. i think it worked quite well at the state level. host: we will go to loretta, cleveland, ohio. caller: oh, hi. good morning, everyone. i wanted to take issue with the supply-side economics because it was not -- [indiscernible] -- it was called three or four other names also. it was called triple down. and it was called voodoo
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economics by bush senior. now, i think that if you are on the receiving end of all those tax cuts, you are doing good. but at the same time, the republicans have been picking and choosing the winners and losers ever since they have been in power. and they do this every time. as the supply-side economics, or the trickle-down theory, it was never proven. 1% every time they give the and corporations tax cut money, it disappears. they don't create jobs, or they did it create jobs here in america. host: all right, loretta. guest: look at what happened in the 1980's. supply-side economics emphatically worked. and by the way, it was trickle
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down to an extent, in terms of actual dollars. thanpeople did get more middle-class people, but they already have more than middle-class people. but they did invest the money and nobody doubt is in favor of a top rate of 70% that i know of. itself even among the democrats. the tax cuts in those days would too high. now, i agree with you that -- but it is not part of supply-side economics. what supply-side economics is is across-the-board tax cuts for everybody, including poor people. what kemp was against was drilling special interest ho in the tax structureles -- holes in the tax structure. group hadnterest
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hired lobbyists to create loopholes in the tax code. he passed in 1986 to lower the rate for everybody but eliminate lots and lots of loopholes. host: hi, john. caller: i am saddened to hear a comment that i heard, but i'm not surprised. the comment was made that the republican party is against immigration and it flat out false. -- it is flat-out false. we are a sovereign country, and otto think it is too much to ask for no one who is in your country, even the 40% that are -- they made the terms when they came into this
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country and they are still hanging out here. is ao say that i think terrible comment for the two commentators to agree to. and it is false. host: we will clarify here. guest: fred said -- i don't know if you heard him -- that's a number of the presidential candidates are now in favor of limiting legal immigration. right? that is part of why the republican party is getting this bad rep. youondly, you have the -- have the leading presidential candidate at the morning -- moment, donald trump, who, by the way, i regard as the antithesis for everything that jack kemp stood for. you have him saying that he is going to deport these people. and you imagine what kind of a scene this is going to present to the world? just think about donald trump in the face of the world and presented to the world -- at --
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and the face of america and present it to the world. what kind of scene that is going to be? it is going to look like syria. and it will make the united states -- they may as well put a shroud over the statue of liberty. guest: i am not for deportation, but syria? i don't think it is quite syria. some republicans are for reducing illegal immigration. i am not for that. we do need to, in addition to stopping illegal immigration, we the legal reform immigration system because the legal immigration system gives incentives for those to come illegally. you go to the front of the line
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to get in of the united states. that dominates. two thirds of the immigrants who come in come in under the family unification system. so if you are, say, a young mexican who wants to come to the united states because you see it as the land of opportunity and you can really on your own decide the destiny of your own life, you are not going to go to the end of the line and wait 25 years is something to be legally admitted to the united states. you are going to come in legally. we need to straighten out the illegal immigration system. bytainly, all republicans any means are not anti-immigration. in fact, most of them are not. but there is a significant group who really want to curb even legal immigration. host: setting immigration aside, right back to capitol hill, what advice would you give with jack kemp being the model to republicans and their fall
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agenda and what they are going to do in the coming weeks leading up to the 2016 election? the longwould pass promised replacement for obamacare. they have repealed it 100 times. it has not been repealed. they have not shown what to they are for. they have not passed the tax reform bill. senateuld process in the and pass a significant increase in medical research. they could build infrastructure. host: short-term one. guest: they could pass the budget. they could actually keep the government going and under the terms they said. they could force obama to
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veto some of these things, at least they would show what they are for and they would show the country that they are for things instead of just being against whatever obama is for. host: and there were reports that paul ryan, who you say represents jack kemp and house, working across the chamber -- in the house, working across the chamber. guest: i don't think that is going to go anywhere, but republicans have said they want to do immigration, for instance, in stages. well, let's see stage one. they can go ahead and do that. they don't have to wait. the thing about obamacare is ridiculous. why go to through this huge effort -- why go through this huge effort when it is going to be filibustered? everybody knows what the republican plan is going to be and it will be outlined by the republican presidential nominee. which is completely different
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from obamacare. there are many different versions of it. host: we will hear from brenda next. caller: hello. host: good morning. caller: i just want to say one thing. i can't remember his last name, his first name is mort. guest: [laughter] nevermind. guest: we all have trouble with it. caller: i just wanted to say that i have two sons, what is 28 and one is 31. both work construction. and they have been working since they were elected years old. -- working since they were 19 years old. i just hate when i hear them say on tv that americans won't do these jobs because i have done those jobs. and my kids, you know, they have been hard-working men ever since they have been of age.
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so i just wanted to correct to that. guest: ok. look, there are americans who do those jobs. i haven't seen any americans raking sand traps and golf courses or very -- in golf courses or very many in big cities cleaning hotel rooms, including in trump's hotel rooms, i might say. so i don't -- i didn't mean to insult your family or your kids. i am sure they are hard-working. but they are working, right? so i don't see mexicans taking their jobs. host: we will go to lee, an independent. caller: yes, i agree with the previous callers. i had to call in. i need you guys to stop doing that. all the talking heads do that. illegalsnot 12 million doing the jobs that other people want to. there are not 12 million pounds
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out here for that. if you go -- farms out here for that. if you go to any store, any insurance office, they are not -- there are not to blacks, there are not whiten their. they are hispanics. they are being hired because this be good to a language. there is no such thing as 12 million farmworkers or 12 million doing service work working hotels. there isn't enough room for 12 million of them to do those jobs. so they are moving into other areas. and unlike the lady that just called, my grandson because of nepotism is being pushed out of jobs are these things because they had their friends and every thing else. it is not fair for you to continue to say -- [indiscernible] -- to continue saying, well, they do the jobs that americans don't do. host: mort, if you want to --
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guest: you see somebody working in an insurance office, ask them if they are american. i bet they are. host: let's talk a little bit more about this book, "jack kemp: the bleeding-heart conservative who changed america ," talk about who he was. nfl quarterback. how did that shape his governing style? him as a politician. guest: he was a leader. quarterbacks led, quarterbacks had the vision, quarterbacks with a member of the football team that showed everybody else the way to victory. -- were a member of the football team that showed everybody else the way to victory. that is the way he led. you didn't just have them talking about the types of tax cuts he wanted to do, jack kemp put together a movement. so many of these young republicans that came in -- think about newt gingrich. he became an acolyte of jack kemp. then weber, the great
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congressman from minnesota, was another one. dan coats from indiana. they became followers of jack kemp. and it wasn't just young members of congress, either. it was the "wall street journal" endorsed over and over again has tax cut deals -- ideas. it was a movement that jack created of which he was the quarterback. host: how do you go from a quebec to an intellectual? -- from a quarterback to an intellectual? not equity backed's are not smart. [laughter] guest: they had to be pretty smart. how they can remember all those plays, i don't know. anyway, he was a mediocre student in college. he was a physical education major. he was football obsessed. working.he started he started traveling around with the team and he started reading.
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he read the "wall street journal," while his teammates were reading "playboy" and "sports illustrated." that he got deeper and deeper. he went to a seminar in economics. it wasn't that he didn't have an intellectual background. his mother was very highly educated. had a masters degree, i think, in social work. and constantly encourage the kids to talk. i took them to concerts and ballets and stuff like that. it is just that in his youth, he was not interested. then he got more and more interested. ultimately, he read everything there was to read about economics. washe time he was done, he as expert as anybody in monetary policy, fiscal policy, international economics, foreign-policy, defense policy, but he was self-taught. host: how did he become a bleeding heart? guest: you know, he came from a
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republican background. and his parents were republican. he wasn't a southerner heard -- southerner. i think a lot of it has to do with his football career. he played with many, many african-americans, and he found that when he was in the american football league, they were discriminated against. when they were travel, the black players would be put in some college dormitory tuesday and the white players in some nice hotel. , theefore kemp complained white players would always have white roommates, and kemp complained about that and it changed on the teams he was on. and i think he really learned a lot to there. said, he came to regret that he was not old enough at the time to be a part of the civil rights movement. host: and try to really push the inclusion of african-americans into the republican party. i want to show our viewers --
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this is jack kemp during an oral history with c-span back in 2007. he was talking about a campaign event today at a black owned business. [video clip] >> number one, a gave a speech at harlem. my wife and i had gone -- and there was griping in the campaign of why is kemp hunting for docs when there are no docs -- ducks when there are no ducks? a friendyoung owner -- of mine, a black republican. and we had this rally at his restaurant. and charlie wrangle came. charlie was an old friend from my house days. he asked, what are you doing at a kemp event? and he said jack and i are friends. long story short, we had a nice reception. i get on the plane, fly to boston, and a reporter says could you give the speech he
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gave at the restaurant in harlem to a suburban kansas city, kansas audience? i said, of course i could. kansas city wants the same thing as anybody. jobs, good education, chance to own your own home. these things are universal. at the american dream, it is the universal dream. guest: jack kemp wanted the republican party to once again become the party of abraham lincoln. and it was famously said of him that he had showered with more african-americans as a football player than most republicans have ever met. and he believed in outreach. he said that america's family should include everybody. and that was a pretty good example of the spirit of the guy. guest: i agree. remember, trying to make the point that jack was basically a
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congressman. -- basically a northern republican. northern republicans voted almost always in unanimous numbers, while democrats, so many of them, were against it. so he really represented that background. and so it was quite natural for him to become a civil rights enthusiast favoring immigration and so on. and those really did become a big part of his political life. host: he didn't listen, though, when the party repeatedly tried to tell him what are you doing. you write he goes down to mississippi and he is at a fundraiser, and someone tells him, don't talk about it. he talks but at the entire time. guest: the party of lincoln. unfortunately, he was in northern republican. unfortunately, although southern democrats to the filibusters. those people have been replaced by republicans, who are now the people driving john boehner out of office. guest: but they were not
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defenders of segregation. guest: they would be -- guest: how do you know? how do know is what is in their hearts? guest: it is the same mentality -- guest: southern republicans may not agree with jack camps views -- jack kemp's views, but they are not like the southern -- guest: they are now taking it out on mexicans. host: we will go to jennifer, west virginia, a democrat. caller: how are you? i'm calling as a former republican, and i was a jack kemp republican. i grew up in southern california. i was in college in the 1980's. i really believed in supply-side economics. it was a new thing then. it was being very antiestablishment. that if we give tax cuts to wealthy people that it which ago down to the core and it would enhance our economy and
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all the wonderful things that we 1980's;back in the however, it didn't work. it never did trickle down. i went from being a fiscal conservative to now what i consider being fiscally responsible. there were a lot of people who do need extra help. i guess my question is -- at doespoint -- how far down -- how unequal to incomes have to become before supply side economics people will admit that it didn't work? guest: it did work. ma'am, it did work at the time. if you remember the difference between yourself and the late 1970's and the kind of economic conditions you were in, and the economic conditions even up to 2000, bill clinton did not
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substantially change what kemp was all about. from 28%,the top rate i think, to 33%. that is all he did. cut capitaly he gains taxes and stuff like that, and it did work. the problem is that, one, the tax code has been drilled through full of special interest holes. and jack kemp believed what you believed. that people at the bottom -- he started out saying a rising tide lifts all boats. and the tax cuts that he put through affected everybody, and they work. now, he came to believe burning jordan convinced him -- vernon jordan convinced him that there were some votes stuck on the bottom and needed left it. so he was in favor of limiting the capital gains taxes in poverty areas.
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he was in favor of giving people housing vouchers so they could go out and rent their own houses. and he was in favor of education toys. you know, this is a hobby horse of mine, but i think the teachers unions of this country are one of the most detrimental organizations there are for poor people. and in order for poor people to rise, they have got to get a decent education. charter schools in the district of columbia and california and wetlands have proved -- and new orleans have proved that you can teach poor kids, but the teachers unions resist every kind of form. guest: that was awfully good, though. [laughter] host: joe adds this to the conversation. how do explain the appearance -- apparent failure of the bush tax cuts to see late prosperity? guest: the bush tax cuts --
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host: right. guest: the early 2000. well, they certainly stalled off a recession. there was a mild recession when bush came in. i thoughtcreated -- they did maintain prosperity, just not at the level of the reagan tax cuts. we had years when you had 6% growth and things like that. compare the bush years, except for maybe the last year when the comedy got into so much trouble -- the economy got into so much trouble, with the obama years, and the bush years look pretty good. it is the first time maybe ever, but certainly in many, many decades when we hadn't had a single year of 3% growth. it is just 2% growth with people dropping out of the economy. it is not working very well. jack kemp -- guest: i wanted to say one thing about kemp.
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there was one simple thing where i think you made the right choice. if you had to choose between spring economic growth and trying to curb the deficit, he always went with growth. never aou know, he was budget balancer, right? what has happened is the fed has done everything it possibly can to keep the economy afloat. congress has been austerity minded. we put in budget caps on everything, everything across the board. stupidly. including defense. what this country needs is it needs public investment. kemp -- i am departing from the kemp playbook because it wasn't the issue it was then, but this country -- and i think fred agrees with this -- needs infrastructure. we are 17th in the world and the quality of our infrastructure, and that is an investment that could create jobs. and the congress just want to do it. host: what do you think jack kemp would say about wages in this country, the wage gap, the
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lack of growth of their and how would he address it -- there and how would he address it? guest: he would say that -- that it is not the difference that counts, what it is is that everybody should rise. he didn't mind rich people getting richer, although i must say i think he would be against interest. -- i think you would be against that. -- he would be against that. but he was trying to raise the bottom and not bring down the topic host: i am going to go to regina, a republican. go ahead. caller: hi. getting back to the day workers, those day workers don't pay medicare, they don't pay social security. but it works in the regular native americans. they work and have to pay into
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these uncontrolled, unhealthy subsidized.ghly when they need to go the hospital, their costs are taking care of. that is why our hospitals are brokered we, the people, take care of them, the native. there is no comparison between the people who go in there a legally compared to the people who have to pay into that base. they like to be paid cash. many contractors have lost to the illegals while they come in with their a legal social security card, which isn't gone after, and they lose their whole business because this contractor taught them how to do everything and then they take their business. host: i am going to leave it there. this is a debate that sparks phone calls. the lines light up. so, given what you have heard today, several phone calls -- guest: let me -- guest: let's hear the question
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first. [laughter] guest: i know where you are going. amp said that when you have stagnant or contracting economy, what politics consists of is pitting one group against another, fighting over a sinking pie. that is what you are saying now. you are seeing wages flat or falling. and as a result, people are looking for somebody to blame for their own condition. and lots of people have fastened on the illegal immigrants as the cause of it all. that is not the cause of it all. the cause of it all is that our economy is not going. there is not opportunity. and what we have to do is create an opportunity society. you can do it by one of two ways. you can do it the bernie sanders way, by having the government spending and taxing, and that something doesn't work. look at europe. the unemployment rates in europe are skyhigh.
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they have great social benefits, but they don't have jobs. we need to create jobs in this country. guest: i agree with that, but i understand why these callers are mad. they see illegal immigrants, who do get a lot of benefits in the united states when they come here. if they show up at a hospital, the hospital can't throw them out. the hospitals have to take anybody who comes with an ailment. and who pays for that? ultimately, in many cases, the taxpayers pay for that. and there are many other benefits they can get that make people furious when they are taxpayers themselves. that is why we need immigration reform. to make people with clean records legally in the system. you don't have to give them a special path to citizenship, but allow them to be working legally in the country when they pay taxes and don't just reap the benefits without paying anything. host: in arizona, an independent
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caller. caller: hello, how are you? host: doing fine. caller: i have a question about the electoral college and how the one person, one vote works. if it didn't work back in 2000. and here, look what we have. i am not promoting al gore. i didn't vote for al gore and i don't dislike or like him. i don't know anything about him. but what would happen if al gore had been put in office and not george bush due to the popular vote? what is the difference? what is wrong with the electoral college? guest: i don't think anything is wrong with the electoral college myself, but it goes back in the constitution. goes back to the bargain which was made between the small states and the big states back, you know, in the late 1700s. what would al gore have done? that is hard to know.
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but i can tell you one thing, bush came in, he had a plan for tax cuts. not this weeping, deep tax cuts of ronald reagan, but tax cuts when he came in. they passed in some ways bipartisan and then they were , iried up a little later think, in 2003. and they worked. they kept the country in a reasonably prosperous situation. one we don't see now. guest: i think they think the election of 19 -- 2000 should have been thrown into the house of representatives. the supreme court majority basically ripped the election out of the constitution and cited it. i think it should have been thrown to the house paid host: what chapter -- house. host: what chapter would you recommend republicans read from this book on jack kemp? guest: that is a good question. really all you need to do is read the introduction.
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it is pretty long for an introduction to a book, but it really outlines what kemp did, why he did it, and what his career was like. and if you read another one called supply-side, it will help you. but there are so many others. jack camp had this really -- kemp had this really interesting and exciting career. guest: i completely agree with fred. if you read -- if you read the introduction, i think you will continue reading the book because it does sort of set up -- and if i do say so myself, i think it is pretty well written. [laughter] host: thank you both your time this morning. guest: we appreciate the conversation. thank you. host: when we come back. we are going to turn our attention to capitol hill and the leadership elections force bigger today. the republicans will be going behind closed doors to nominate the next bigger. we would get to that right after
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this break -- will get to that right after this break. announcer: this sunday night on "q&a," former senator gary hart on his new book "the republican conscious," comparing our current republic to the government the founders intended. >> the founders used the ancient government of greece and rome, warned against corruption. their corruption was putting special interests ahead of the common good. and by that definition, washington today is a massively corrupt place. announcer: sunday night at 8:00 eastern and pacific on c-span's "q&a."
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>> and i think every first lady should do something in this position to help the things she cares about. i just think that everything in the white house should be the best. the entertainment that is given here. and so, of course, are our feelings for children. i think it is good and the world where there is quite enough to divide people that we should cherish the language and emotions that unite us all. announcer: jacqueline kennedy's 1000 days as first lady were defined in images as political spouse, young mother, fashion advocate, and advocate for the arts. imagesimately the tragic of kennedy's assassination and funeral. jacqueline kennedy, this sunday night at 8:00 p.m. eastern on c-span's original series, "first ladies." examining the public and private
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lives of the women who fill the position of first lady and their influence on the presidency. from martha washington to michelle obama, sunday at 8:00 p.m. eastern on american history tv" on c-span3. journal": "washington continues. host: and we are back. we are going to wrap up today with all of you with your thoughts on the republicans gathering behind closed doors to vote for the next bigger. they started a listening session around 8:00 a.m. eastern time this morning in the basement of the capitol, with a all went behind closed doors to hear from each of the nominees: kevin mccarthy, daniel webster, and jason chaffetz. all wanting to be the top spot for the republican party in the house. and so they will listen this morning, and then the lawmakers will be gathering midday today
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to nominate the next speaker. three weeks later, the vote has to take place on the house floor. what are your thoughts on all this? (202) 748-8001 for republicans. (202) 748-8000 for democrats. (202) 745-8002 for independents. you can also join the conversation on twitter, @cspanwj. or go to facebook.com/cspan. post thisgton morning, the headline, house blocks support. a group of hard-line conservatives threaten to up and the republican race to succeed outgoing house speaker john boehner, announcing yesterday that it will throw it support behind a little-known --
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joining us on the phone this morning, robert costa with the "washington post." usert costa, you left earlier this morning to go up to capitol hill, what have you learned since leaving our table? guest: good to join you again. i'm outside of hc5, the basement conference room at the capitol. all three candidates have given their speeches. i have heard from members that it has been a low-key morning. that the speaker candidates have made their case and pitched to members. but there has been no theatrics. there has been no fireworks. it has been a relatively humdrum gathering. host: who introduced each of these candidates to their
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rank-and-file? a lot of members didn't even hear some of the introduction speeches. we have seen paul ryan saying he is going to get the speech for mccarthy before the vote this afternoon at 12:00, but most of the members were just giving their kids today on their own. it was a private meeting. about 200 house republicans showed up in they gave 5 to 10 minute speeches about their ideas. host: where the rank-and-file able to ask them questions -- were the rank and file able to ask them questions? guest: they were. the meeting kind of broke and they had different questions, different happenings. they all took different places in the room to yield questions. host: what happens next? guest: they have made their closing arguments. now they are going back to their argument -- offices. then they gather in the ways and means committee room around noon. then they are going to have a long process of voting for who
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the nominee should be forced bigger. again, this is a party vote. not any kind of vote that locks you down. but they are going to have an hour long process today. we are going to have -- they are going to have some kind of consensus and announced who they are backing for speaker as a party. host: and what we know about the freedom caucus and the role they will play today? guest: the role they will play today is being a protest vote. they are going to back daniel webster. what the caucus wants to do between now and the actual vote on the floor is win concessions from mccarthy, who is the likely speaker nominee. they want to have pledges from him that the conservatives will be more included in committees. when it comes to crafting the legislative agenda, they will have a leadership role. not just be on the bench. host: and are they likely to get those concessions? guest: coming out of this meeting right now, mccarthy has support, but he doesn't have a
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huge groundswell. if the vote is narrow today, if the formal vote is narrow around noon today, that means mccarthy will probably have to make some concessions to lockdown, to nail down that floor vote. you need to hundred 18 votes, the majority of the whole house. so mccarthy to secure himself politically will probably make some concessions. the question for republicans is is mccarthy just going to not and make suggestions, or will he write a memo out and make actual assurances on paper? host: or will he change the rules of the house? guest: there is a push to change the role of the house in many ways. at the moment, to change the rules of leadership elections a lot of them think if you are going to run for leadership, you should resign your current position. or if you are a committee chairman, like tom price from georgia.
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sense that you shouldn't have the safety of your could position as you run and try to climb up the ladder. host: we heard from one lawmaker here on the program this week that republicans are thinking about a rule change that says that if you do not vote for the nominee, you will lose your committee assignment, etc.. is that true? guest: i don't think it is going forward, but it is true that that idea has been floated. and it comes from boehner allies. ofot of them are embarrassed the speaker spectacle coup. that is why they try to have these party vote because they want to have a united front when they come to the floor. when they don't have a united front on the floor, some members break, a lot of the veteran members say it just doesn't look good for the party and there should be consequences if you break from your party on the floor. the counter argument from conservatives is they are making their own voices heard.
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they have their own opinions. just because they don't back the party enthusiastically doesn't mean they should get punished. host: robert costa, what does the next three weeks mean for legislation on the floor? guest: boehner is going to try to, as he says, clean the dirty barn. empty it out with government spending, with the fiscal cliff perhaps. he is try to get all these things off the table. whether he has the will to do so, whether the votes either is an open question. he wants the next bigger to start on a relatively clean slate. host: a lot to watch on the house floor. robert costa, thank you for filling us in. appreciate it. guest: thank you. host: let's get to your calls. jim, good morning. what do you think? caller: good morning. thanks for taking my call. mccarthy,ds to kevin i just want to bring up a piece
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written by a man named robert drake, which happened generate 20th, 2009, the day -- january 20, 2009, the date obama was inaugurated. and this was in front of newt gingrich, so this meeting definitely did happen. mccarthy and a bunch of republicans basically came up with what they called -- [indiscernible] in that plan, they basically agreed that they would give absolutely nothing to president obama. no victories at all. jim, do you think that that it matters who becomes -- then that it matters who become speaker? caller: the fact that he broke the law with these benghazi hearings is clearly against the to to use public funds investigate a candidate for the
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purpose of winning an election. that is clearly against the law. he wants towonder -- -- he intended to obstruct the government, and he did everything he could. hed now the very same guy -- has no morals. host: democrats are pushing, as you may know, an ethics investigation into the motivations and the work of this select committee investigating what happened in benghazi in 2012. on twitter, it doesn't matter who gets the position, the house will still be dysfunctional. a republican, what do you think? caller: hui. i think that boehner should remain in office because of the simple fact he was represented -- representing me. he was doing it for the people.
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and people thought that he wasn't. and i don't feel that he should of left because of what they was doing. even on my behalf. i don't think you should of left. i think you should of stayed. hed the new mccarthy -- represents me so i can go on with my life and better myself. he might be a good guy, but we have to give him a chance first. but i do think they should take the money that is being offered to me and make like i don't want any. host: i am going to go to dominic a new york, a republican. caller: how are you doing? i was listening to harry reid yesterday crying about mccarthy. the man is a strong man to stand up for what he believes in, especially about benghazi. because i'm a -- i remember
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benghazi very well. and still saying it was an angry mob, instead of a terrorist attack, which he knew. you can't lie to the military. you can't lie to their families. she is a disgrace, and harry reid proved it. i hope mccarthy wins, and have a great day. host: let's take a look at what harry reid had to say on the floor yesterday. [video clip] only realmmittee's objective was to hurt hillary clinton. exactly as congressman mccarthy said. months, -- deposed -- [indiscernible] gowdy and, chairman the republicans have little interest in questioning intelligence and expects -- experts. they have never held a single hearing with anyone in the department of defense.
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the republican chairman and his colleagues have abandoned their plans and have gone after secretary clinton her and her staff -- and her staff. evidence is so clear to benghazi's select committee is a scam. now we have -- [indiscernible] for the to be running house of representatives come november 1. he has a knowledge it was a witchhunt. -- acknowledged it was a witchhunt. that is why they wrote to speaker banner asking to dispatch the committee. -- speaker banner asking to dispatch the committee. if it was up to me, -- [indiscernible] everyoneeminder to that the republicans have manipulated a true american tragedy entered it into political circus. host: the minority leader on the floor yesterday talking about
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what kevin mccarthy had to say about the benghazi committee. and other news related to the minority leader, mr. reid and his wife are suing the makers of an exercise band that injured his eye. they say the company knew of the dangers of the band slipping out of his hand. hitbnd hit his eye -- band his eye and he will probably not have use of his right eye. harris. caller: good morning. how are you? host: good morning. caller: i have a civics background, and it is unfortunately breathtaking to see the levels from which partisanship now covers the tone, as well as the content of discussion. parking back to the farewell address george washington gave where he basically warned us if we over indulge in this part of our nature where we become so
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partisan in pursuit of aims that are personal to ourselves, we lose the broader picture and allow the parties to guide us in ways that are not in our best interests as a nation. we tend to be used to this coke and pepsi us and them mentality, which is now apparently the norm. but there was a time and they can be yet again where there is some optimism. let's try for some stability. let's try to pick leaders that do speak for the entire house. host: give me some names. who represents what you are saying? caller: i wouldn't use names as much as ideas. let's use, perhaps, the blue dog democrats. when i was involved with the coalition years ago, there was a group of moderate democrats that held to the middle. and there were others of that mind. the no labels effort is a recent example of where people are trying to find policies for agreement on the left and right. can we let the rest of this
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drama and whatever else it is go by the wayside and get back to the people's business? host: on twitter, the gop establishment is a mess. while impossible, they may find a way to lose the house in the 2016 election. and -- benghazi committee and imo service scandal credit long before hillary clinton announced campaign. duane, pine bluff, arkansas. good morning to you caller: how are you? host: doing fine. what do you think about what is happening of a capitol hill today? caller: i think if the republicans don't get back to the constitution -- the gentleman just speaking all these platitudes, he, again and a lot of the people in the house and the senate, he didn't want to get back to to the corner when you're asking him for a name. he wasn't going to get back into that corner. you can't do that because when
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the democrats are in office, what they push through is what they want to push through. and when you have a white house which has no over guard for the rule of law, then you have to pick someone who is not going to be like a boehner was, just another carbon copy pattern of something. we need someone who is going to be like donald trump and marco fiorina andrly carson. we need a speaker that is great to be able to get in there and work with both sides, but be a leader. have ideas. here is where we are going, this is what we need to do. now what doing need to do to get you all to come along with us? host: take a look at this. dick cheney endorsed kevin mccarthy for speaker. mr. mccarthy speaking out that he agrees with the former vp --
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kevin mccarthy with that tweet responding to the endorsement from dick cheney. we will hear from eddie next in jasper, florida. a democrat. good morning to you. caller: good morning. we need a moderate. you look at the election today and people that are running -- democrat or republican -- either too far left or too far right. we need somebody that is in the middle that takes care of the people. host: ok. inin mississippi -- jd mississippi. what are your thoughts on this debate? caller: well, i think that the election of representative mccarthy to this bigger ship is going to be a great -- to the speakership is going to be a great boost to the candidacy for -- [indiscernible] host: why do you think it is a
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boost? thisr: it just continues almost comical congress that is in power now. and it will be good. people are starting to wake up to the fact that they are not representing the interests of the american people. host: all right. in las vegas, a democrat. good morning to you. caller: yeah, i think we need a competent opposition party and office. what we have now is massive dysfunction. and what most republicans have to realize is they have to be part of it. they have to govern. about we canust get our way, we are going to shut the government down. that is not how it works. they have to realize that the majority of people in the , are inare, you know blue states. most of their states that they represent, they represent mostly land. host: i am going to leave it
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there because i want to share another story with you. if you have been watching this morning, you saw a tweet by rupert murdoch about ben carson and his wife. rupert murdoch says ben carson would be a real black resident. then and candy carson terrific. what about a real black president who can address the racial divide? and much else. noting that rupert murdoch was referencing an article in the paper in a "new york times" magazine article about the disappointment the minority community has had about president barack obama. with a follow-up tweet saying, apology. no offense meant. personally find both men chiming. louisiana, a republican, good morning to you. caller: good morning. i am calling to put my support behind jason chaffetz. i have watched him in the house
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of representatives and the committee hearings. he is like a little bulldog. he will go after people. , over the years of trying to get along with the democrats, you can't it along with -- [indiscernible] -- opposes everything you stand for. now in the senate, they changed the 60 vote will a couple years ago -- rule a couple years ago in favor of a majority. well, when they started losing support of the senate to republicans, well now they want to go put it back. the democrats want to put back the 60 vote rule to -- to nullify the republicans. why don't they just go back to a 51% majority and let obama do it he wants to? if you want to be to everything, let him veto it and show their public -- show the public what he does. host: on the screen, you can see
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charlie dent, a moderate republican from pennsylvania, talking to reporters there outside the room where lawmakers had gathered earlier this morning to hear from the nominees for speaker. each of them talked for about 5 to 10 minutes. willhen later today, they be introduced and talked about from their fellow colleagues again to the rank and file. then the conference will vote. an internal party vote. jake sermon tweeting out -- jake sherman tweeting out that paul ryan will beginning the nominating speech for kevin mccarthy. so whoever the nominee is after the midday today, that persons name will be put -- person's name will be put forth on october 29. then we will see what happened. not sure if kevin mccarthy will have the necessary 218 votes
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that he needs. more to come on this discussion. but that does it for today's "washington journal." thank you all for watching and phoning in. the house is about to gavel and. live coverage here on c-span. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2015] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] the speaker pro tempore: the house will be in order. the chair lays before the house a communication from the speaker. the clerk: the speaker's room, washington, d.c., october 8, 2015. i hereby appoint the honorable john j. duncan jr. to act as speaker pro tempore on this day. signed, john a. boehner, speaker of the house of representatives. the speaker pro tempore: pursuant to the order of the house of january 6, 2015, the chair will now recognize members from lists submitted by the majority and minority leaders for morning hour debate.

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